but they have never been able to make an impact on live events until now and if youtube could find a way to turn 800illion monthly users into a regular viewing audience, wow. they'll sure be attractive to advertisers that currently choose to run ads on tv. no surprise youtube announced today they are launching 60 new channels online. pretty amazing. "ac 360" starts now. tonight, the rematch. can the president turn the race around? is romney peaking too soon? on the eve of the biggest debate of this election, i talk to the romney boys. >> when you look at my dad and who he is and what he stands for, he's a man of great conviction. >> plus a man who says the president's just like mohammad ali in his prime. why he's not counting out barack obama. and policy meets religion. does america care that mitt romney is a mormon? franklin graham, betty graham's son, tells me about his meeting with mitt. also, he's in every election up close since the '60s. last time he was here, dan rather told me this. >> each of these campaigns is in a mode to be meaner than a mama wasp. >> keeping america great with

one of the country's top entrepreneurs, martha stewart. >> i am 100% american. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, 22 days to go until the election and 24 hours before the second presidential debate, a town hall at hofstra university on long island, with undecided voters, if there are many of those left, asking the questions. cnn's candy crowley is moderating. this debate couldn't be more important. let's look at the latest cnn poll of polls. tonight the president is deep in debate prep in virginia while mitt romney does his homework in boston and the candidates' top surrogates, their wives are on the trail too. michelle obama getting emotional talking to college students in the battleground state of ohio. >> don't let anyone talk down your dreams and aspirations. you hear me? don't let anyone talk down our country or our future.

you all have every reason to be optimistic about what lies ahead for you. >> meanwhile, ann romney also looking to the next generation. >> our children and our grandchildren cannot inherit this huge amount of debt and this legacy of debt. they have to have the same opportunities and freedoms that were given to us by the ancestors that sacrificed so much for us to be here in the most amazing country ever on the face of the earth. >> joining me now, four of mitt and ann romney's five sons, craig, josh, matt and tagg. tagg, josh, matt, craig. >> almost. >> i can also get into your professions. i find this quite interesting. private equity, real estate, real estate, real estate but about to go back to your real love, music production. right? >> that's right.

>> why that's interesting is that apart from the fact you all look a bit like your dad, obviously your dad's three and a half weeks potentially away from becoming president of the united states. why when americans are about to vote now is he the guy to do the most important thing, turn round america's economy? >> he knows how to fix things. the country's got problems, big problems. he knows how to fix them. and the economy's hurting and we need someone that knows how to fix the economy. >> josh, people say he can fix things. he can break them, too. when he was at bain, as many jobs as he made, he also wiped out. that was the nature of the beast of being a venture capitalist. what do you say to that? >> not sure where you got your facts -- >> i'm not saying that. this is what people say about him. he's a ruthless machine beneath the ready smile. >> he's a guy who is in this to help people who are suffering under this economy. you think right now there's 23 million americans who are out of work or underemployed. you think there's a $16 trillion deficit. this is something, this is a legacy we can't pass on to the next generation. my biggest concern is not my business but my five kids and what's going to happen to them in this america.

>> craig, the other criticism your dad gets with his policies and those of paul rryan, his running mate, they look after the rich, not so bothered by those at the poor end of the game. they don't want to hike up taxes for the rich. they think they should come down a bit. why would your father care really about super-rich people not paying a little bit more tax? why shouldn't they pay a bit more? why shouldn't you? >> you know, it's interesting. i ran into -- i have been touring around the country, had the chance to meet voters all over the place. i met a woman in nevada who owns a small beauty salon and she came up to me and said i have been in business for 30 years, these last four years have been the hardest i have ever gone through and i'm struggling to keep my business going. she said i need your dad to win or i think i'm going to lose my business. that's really what this is about. that's why my dad's in this race. he's out there for the small business owners who are struggling, for the 23 million americans who are unemployed. he knows how to create jobs. he knows how to get those people back to work. that's why he's in the race. >> tagg, let's turn to the debate. it's obviously crucial. your dad had an amazing debate last week. it was because obama was weak

and your dad wasn't that strong. actually, i thought he was very strong, the best i have seen him debate. if he does that again, i mean, you guys are close to the white house. this is a huge night tomorrow night. >> yeah. i think the format is going to make it tough for anyone really to win. most likely it will be a draw. it's a town hall format -- >> those are our expectations. why not say my dad is going to crush him? >> i did enjoy watching him the last debate. i think it was a chance for america really for the first time to tune in for 90 minutes and hear mitt romney from his own mouth, unplugged. no liberal media putting their spin on it, no offense, but letting people hear and i think it was refreshing for people to hear what his vision was and what he thought as opposed to hearing what the other side thought his vision was. >> josh, one of the problems you have or have had until this point has been with women voters for your father. yet today, we saw a poll come

out in the swing states, two interesting statistics to me. one is your father's five points ahead clear in the swing states in this particular poll, 51-46, but more importantly, he's closed the gap to zero on the female vote. there's been a big surge in almost all the polls we've seen since the debate. so he clearly connected with women. but not all the women. because we have a video here which has just come out today. this is an obama promotable video, stars scarlett johansson, eva longoria and carrie washington. >> i want to talk to you about women. >> and about mitt romney. >> mitt romney's for ending funding to planned parenthood. >> including cancer screenings. >> he said he would overturn roe v wade. >> we have republicans trying to redefine rape. >> trying to force women to undergo invasive ultrasounds. >> if you think that this election won't affect you and your life, think again. >> social issues, i mean, i know the campaign's tried very hard to avoid having to go back over this ground, because it's contentious area and your father

has made it pretty clear that he doesn't think it's as important as the economy, but a lot of women, women we just heard there, very high profile women, it does matter to them. your father may be president and they're worried he's going to outlaw gay marriage, that he's going to, you know, flip-flop around on abortion, all these other things you know he's been criticized for. what comfort can you give young women that think your father's going to come after them? >> if we keep spending $1 trillion a year more than we take in, and we keep saddling this country and future generations with debt, none of those things matter. this election as i look at what people are really worried about, women and men, is the economy. it's people that are struggling to put food on the table, people who are out of work, people who are looking to get a better step in life. that's what this election is about. >> but also america, though, i've read a piece from a british newspaper at the weekend which has been picked up a bit and people were surprised i took this view, i sort of outlined the fact your father could win

and it may not be the big disaster that his opponents say it could be, that economically he may be with his credentials as a business guy, the right guy to turn things round. we shall see whether he wins to start with. but certainly, when it came to his principles as a man, as a human being, as your father, as a husband, as a grandfather and so on, i think he has impeccable credentials although his principled people you could probably wish to meet. in terms of his credentials as a politician, i think there is merit to the argument he's fairly unprincipled. he's a flip-flopper. what is the argument from the family, if you like, that he's not unprincipled. >> we were able to see his principles as a father, a husband, grandfather, and we were actually able to see him as a leader as well. in the private sector and as governor. we were able to see the way he led, which is very principled. he has strong principles, very strong core conviction. he leads with them. when you look at what he's done, how he's lived his life in every aspect, in business, running the olympics, as governor, he's a man of great principle and obviously, there's a lot of people that try and tear that

down and make that a weakness. when you look at my dad and who he is and what he stands for, he's a man of great conviction. >> i think it's about his record, too. it's very easy to parse people's words in a campaign election and say they have differing views today than they had a few years ago. he's very consistent but if you look at his record, that really tells a lot about somebody. we have seen that from the time we were little and we know what kind of a good principled character this is, but i think everybody, and i think a lot of people got to see that during the debate, too. but people get to know -- >> clearly a lot of women watched it and were more impressed by him, or felt a better connection than they were before. let's watch a little clip, this is great, from the new fox show "new girl." >> don't do this. don't do this. >> sorry. we have to do this. i'm sorry. >> i think april's in love with your brothers. >> who isn't? >> who's the joker? >> you're such a spazz. >> nobody gets rowdy like us romney boys. just a bunch of alphas. that is of course unless we're fishing. nothing i love more than just getting on the water with dad,

the freezing cold dawn, couple of cold beers in hand, having that one -- >> your dad doesn't drink. he's a mormon. >> we don't drink the beers, courtney. we just buy them to support american breweries. we dump them in the lake. >> that is great. >> fantastic. there's a new romney brother called tugg who can replace ben who's not here. >> clearly he looks most like you and he's called tugg. we are all assuming this is you. how do you feel about this? >> it used to be every question, everywhere i went people would ask is tagg your real name. now the question is have you seen "new girl." >> we took a vote. we want to replace him. that guy looks like more fun. >> bring him here next time. >> people say you're the one direction of politics, only a little bit older, like a political throw-back. how do you feel about that? >> not good. not good at all.

>> finally, you are 22 days away potentially from seeing your family win the presidential election, it's neck and neck, anything could happen. you get there, you'll be at the white house, you'll be the first family. have you begun to think about what that could be like? >> we really don't. we compartmentalize this. >> we haven't even discussed what would be the next step. we're just talking about getting my dad here. >> to borrow a sports cliche, we're taking it one day at a time. we honestly are. >> do you feel there's been a real change since that last debate, that there's been an irrational reaction in your father's favor because of the way he performed and indeed, the poor way the president performed? >> so much enthusiasm. all of us have been on the trail a lot the last couple weeks. there was a dramatic uptick in enthusiasm as people got to see who the real mitt romney is and see how good of a person he is. >> i think it really started after he picked paul ryan as his running mate and people saw this election happening, people started to pay attention. from that time on, the energy at the rallies we're going to and people we meet, it's amazing. it's just a ton of energy, ton

of enthusiasm. >> the white house are briefing obama is going to come out fighting, we will see a more passionate obama coming after your man head-to-head. how will he deal with that? >> we have seen him in those situations. i think each one of us here has come to him head-to-head and -- >> what happens? >> very aggressive as teenagers. we usually get beat down. a verbal beat-down. my dad's very good. he's got an incredible intellect. he has great principles. he knows his ideas and so, you know, he's been prepared. we are tough as teenagers but really, he'll do a good job. i think it's going to be a good debate. i think my dad is certainly someone who is very witty and intelligent. >> where is ben? >> he's busy being a doctor. >> something i said? >> treating patients, i think. >> he's in residency. >> he defected to the obama camp. good to see you. >> nice to see you, too. >> josh, good to see you. >> thank you. >> craig, good to see you. showing off again.

the romney brothers. when we come back, the man who compares romney/obama to frazier/ali. a bunch of malarkey? what does that mean? >> it's irish. >> no, no, no. irish is i come over there and smack that dumb look off your face. >> "saturday night live's" unique take on last week's vice ñ

a bunch of malarkey? what does that mean? >> it's irish. >> no, no, no. irish is i come over there and smack that dumb look off your face. >> "saturday night live's" unique take on last week's vice presidential debate. that's not what we expect to see tomorrow or maybe we will. president obama is hard at work planning his strategy for what he hopes will be the debate of his life. joining me now, a big city mayor who is team obama, kasim reed of atlanta. are you expecting for barack obama to come out like a charging rhinocerous? >> not at all. he doesn't need to overcorrect. i made the analogy because the president has been running the country for the last four years while mitt romney is running for president. he certainly had a bit of ring rust during the last debate they had.

i think he's going to come out in a calm, effective manner and i think he's going to do very well. there are two more debates to go. if you think of the classic ali/frazier fights, frazier had a very good first fight, he lost the rest of the other two and i think history remembers winners. that's what i think's going to happen here. but no charging, raging or anything like that from the president. >> but it's been interesting to see how the president changes his demeanor. he was lackluster. i think you put it down to just being ring rusty. he just seemed to be disengaged in the whole process of the debate. i presume that you and other supporters have sent word look, mr. president, we need some fire in the belly tomorrow night. >> well, you know, i know that the president has plenty of fire in the belly but you know what, governor romney has gone awful far off this debate. it was just two weeks before that debate or days before that debate where he was losing almost every swing state so we understand that he had a good debate and we understand that we're in a neck and neck race but most people would still

rather have president obama's hand. i really watched the earlier segment and thought that was really interesting. you all mentioned his record. his record as governor of massachusetts was terrible. he went from 35th to 47th in job creation. he left the state with $1 billion in debt and he left with less than a 37% job approval. so i was a bit stunned to sit here and hear how wonderful his record is. he would not have been re-elected governor of massachusetts. that's why he elected president. >> okay. let me throw that back at you. what would you have said if rather than that, he had been president of the united states and he had taken the debt from $10 trillion to $16 trillion, if he had unemployment at the end of a four-year tenure at 7.8%, gas prices have doubled, house prices had collapsed. what would you have said if mitt romney had resided over a presidency with all those economic checks on his list? you would have been equally unimpressed, wouldn't you?

>> i would push back on that. first of all, i would say preventing the country from going into a great depression is a pretty big deal. this wasn't just a recession. this was the country on the verge of a fiscal cliff. so i would say that. i would say five million jobs, creating more jobs than george bush, his predecessor, who left him with $10 trillion in debt that your republican friend paul ryan was his wing man on, that the republicans left with him having to save the automobile industry, having to save the banking and financial services industry. i believe that you would get some credit for that. having mortgage foreclosures at a five-year low. so basically, what mitt romney has said is you haven't cleaned up fast enough. mitt romney has run for office a total of four times. he's only won once. that means he's got about a 25% chance of winning here. if he were an ipo he would not bet on himself. i think if you're going to talk about records, i'll put barack

obama's record in public service up against mitt romney's every single time. >> okay. >> he was not a good governor of massachusetts. he's not even contesting massachusetts. >> i hear you. the problem that you have in the obama camp is as you say, momentum has moved to mitt romney. there's a poll of swing states today showing a five-point lead for mitt romney. more worryingly, when you study the detail of it in gallup and "usa today" , you see there are two areas where he's really improved. one, in his likability that was a major issue for romney before, clearly since the debate people just found him more likeable. they can relate to him more. secondly, with women. the gap has closed completely now in a series of polls where barack obama was way ahead with women. so women for whatever reason are being put off by the president's campaigning right now. why is this? >> well, let me say this.

mitt romney is very fond of saying that hope is not a strategy. but dishonesty is. that was his strategy during the debate and it's not going to prevail. you talked a lot about the swing states. the fact of the matter is, if the electoral college were to play out right now, the president would win about 256 electoral votes and mitt romney would be at about 207 or 208 and he would have to sweep the day. what you didn't mention is that he's behind four to six points in ohio. now, as much as you all want to fantasize about it, no republican has won without winning ohio in 100 years. he's doing better -- >> do you really think -- >> i let you speak, piers. >> you think i fantasize about a republican winning ohio. what makes you think i fantasize about that? >> i just watched the piece, the wonderful piece that you all were talking about mitt romney being president. all i'm saying is you talked about the swing states, and the swing states that romney is doing well now in are florida, north carolina, he is doing better in virginia. he is still losing the remainder of them. now, before, he was in an awful

position and people were putting on lifevests left and right. it took the stench of defeat for governor romney to turn away from his right right political policies. you're on talking about a guy who has pledged allegiance to grover norquist. you know the financial situation that the united states of america is in. you referenced the $16 trillion in debt. paul ryan voted for every budget-busting measure the whole way. he was george bush's wing man. so how can you have a conversation about the $16 trillion debt when his wing man was a part of it for the entire time? all i'm saying is if you want to talk about the polls, any serious person would take the president's hand, if we had an election tonight, he would win the next debate on tomorrow, he will win the third debate, and then he's going to win the presidency of the united states. >> mayor reed, if he shows even a tenth of your passion and determination and confidence tomorrow night, he will slay

mitt romney. so i congratulate you for that. i hope it rubs off on him for the sake of the democrats. i will hope to also speak to you again because i like having you on the show. thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me. >> my pleasure. when we come back, one of the country's top evangelicals who met with mitt romney a few days ago, franklin graham. and later, a man who's seen it all when it comes to elections. dan rather.

when mitt romney met last week with billy graham, he promised to do all he could to help the candidate. also in the meeting was franklin graham, president and ceo of the billy graham evangelist association. welcome to you. how are you? >> fine. thank you for having me. >> this brighter passage in america where whoever wants to be president, has to go down, see your father and now you as well. how did it go, the meeting with mitt romney? >> it was a nice meeting. my father knew the governor's father, george romney, when he was governor of michigan, and he became a close friend of my father's. so my father felt that the

governor george romney was his friend and he was glad to meet his son. first time they had met. i met him a few years ago for the first time but very nice man. we had a great meeting. enjoyed it very much. >> what is your position, you and your father, about mormons? do you believe that they are christians? >> well, you know, there's a lot of differences in various faiths and we all have those differences and doctrine or dogma but what's important is that we get along and that we co-exist together and we respect one another and i think that's what's important. there are differences, no question, in what the mormon faith teaches. i think you were raised roman catholic? >> i was, yeah. >> there's a lot of differences between what the catholics believe and protestants believe. >> personally having interviewed mitt romney about his faith, i would personally say i think he is christian, very much so. there are a few key differences in theology, we know that, but

overall, i would say not enough to disqualify him as a christian. do you believe that? do you think he is a christian? >> first of all, i'm not going to get into what each candidate believes or they don't believe. >> there's a lot of mormons in america. there's also tens of millions of christians, obviously. hundreds of millions. all wondering, all wondering if we vote for this guy, are we voting for somebody who essentially is a christian? >> listen -- >> they look to people like you to say yes or no. >> wait a second. it's not that easy. as an evangelical christian, i believe that jesus christ is the son of god. i believe that he came to this earth to take my sins and he died on the cross, he shed his blood on the cross, he was buried for my sins and later, he rose from the grave. the bible is very clear. jesus said i'm the way. he said i'm the truth, i'm the life. no men comes to the father but by me. this is the core of what i believe as an evangelical. yet i know there are people that have different beliefs and differences but i'm going to work with them and we are not

voting for the man who is going to be our pastor in chief. we're looking for a commander in chief, someone who can lead this nation out of the economic mess and political mess that we have found ourselves in. many people believe that governor romney and i'm one of those, i have already voted and i voted for him, and my father has already voted. >> you would forgive me if i sort of took from all this that you probably aren't quite ready to say he's a christian. >> first of all, i'm not going to get into this debate as to who's a christian or who's not a christian. i'm not even going to go there. >> don't you think it's a quite interesting debate, though? >> you ask him. i'm not going to speak on that. >> i think he would say he thinks he is christian. >> i'm not going to get in that debate. >> let's turn to some of his issues. one of which is abortion, where he seems to have performed a number of flip-flops, for want of a better phrase. this is what he said in 1994. >> i believe that abortion

should be safe and legal in this country. i have since the time that my mom took that position when she ran in 1970 as a u.s. senate candidate. i believe that since roe v wade has been the law for 20 years, that we should sustain and support it and i sustain and support that law and the right of a woman to make that choice. >> now, clearly he thinks the complete opposite now. do you have any problem with that? >> no, because i think as we get older, piers, we do change our views. ronald reagan -- >> he was my age when he said that. >> ronald reagan -- >> it wasn't like he was young. this is what i find a bit odd. he was my age. i'm 47. i think he was about 47. it was 1994. that's what i find to be odd about it. he wasn't young. i couldn't imagine changing my belief about something like abortion at this age. >> sure. i think as we get older, i think we do change. when i say older, i'm talking about every year as we mature -- >> don't you think politicians do it for other reasons? are you not slightly suspicious -- >> no, i think governor romney, what you see with him is what you get. this is what he believes. this is his position.

i appreciate his position where he is today on abortion. i appreciate the fact where he stands on the biblical definition of marriage between a man and woman because this is a huge issue in this election, whether people want to admit it or not, for evangelical christians, for churches across the board in the united states, this is the number one issue. >> gay marriage? >> the definition of marriage. god instituted marriage and for the president to now back something that is against god's position and is a big problem for him with not only evangelical churches but african-american churches across this country who are very conservative -- >> why shouldn't gay people get married? >> listen, they can do whatever they want. >> apart from get married. >> they can do whatever they want. >> but that doesn't -- you don't want to include marriage. >> marriage is between a man and woman. that's god is the one who defines the limits for marriage. he's the one who gave marriage, the first -- >> understand, but when you say they can do whatever they want, you mean except get married. >> this is a free country. they can live however they want. but for us to say what marriage

is apart from what god says marriage is is wrong. >> can they get married or not? >> no. listen, i cannot accept gay marriage. i'm not homophobic. i'm not against gay or lesbian people. they are free to live however they want to live. but i believe god makes it very clear that marriage is between a man and a woman and there's no discussion about it. and for me to support any other definition other than god's definition would be wrong. >> you think it's a sin, homosexuality? >> yes, sure. sure, it is. piers, i'm a sinner so i'm not condemning. i'm not their judge. >> anything you want to share with me? >> i'm glad my mother's not here. she's in heaven. if she were here, she would give you a long list of my shortcomings. we have all sinned and i'm a sinner. i was 22 years old when i got on my knees one night and i asked god to forgive me of my sins,

and i accepted his salvation, his son jesus christ, my faith into my heart and my life. we're all guilty of sin. but god is wanting to forgive sin. and he's willing to forgive and he's willing to forget but the only way to him is through the cross, is through christ, who died and shed his blood, who god raised to life. if we're willing to believe, piers, if you're willing to believe by faith, god will forgive us. he will forgive you. >> he would probably have a lot more to forgive with me than he would with you. >> he's in the forgiving business. he loves it. >> nice to meet you. i mentioned samaritan's purse, relief organization does great work around the world. i congratulate you for that work. how's your father? >> he's great. >> american icon. when we come back, dan rather. dan rather's been covering presidential campaigns since 1952. oh...there you go.

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dan rather's been covering presidential campaigns since 1952. for millions of americans, it's not an election without him. luckily the host of "dan rather reports" is here with me now. welcome back. when we last spoke, you were very much of the view this is getting to be a very nasty election. have your worst fears been realized? >> even beyond my worse fears and i fear that in the next 22, 23 days, it will get even worse.

there's a lot of money to be spent by both sides and they are going to spent it with as much negative campaigning as they possibly can, i'm sorry to say. >> romney clearly had a great debate and the power of debates in the modern political arena has probably never been greater judging by the reaction to that debate and to the poll numbers. do you agree with that? >> i do agree with that. i think the debate tomorrow night will be the most important perhaps decisive presidential debate in the history of our country, certainly in the tv era. in the sense that despite the democrats hoping to the contrary, governor romney, whether you think he should have or not, got a big bounce in the polls. he got four to six poll points on the national polls and he moved in the swing states and that puts a lot of pressure on president obama, and i think that if president obama loses this election, if he loses it, we will trace it back to the first debate. >> i actually, i remember watching him at the convention making a speech the night after bill clinton.

clinton made an amazing speech even by his standards. obama's just wasn't quite as good. it wasn't quite as inspiring. i thought even his wife sounded a bit more up for the battle. since then i just felt that the president's mojo isn't what it was four years ago, almost like he's been battered down by the job. do you see that in him? >> i doubt seriously whether that's in fact what has happened but you couldn't watch that first presidential debate and not come away fearing if you were a democrat and believing if you were a republican that that was the case. he's been off himself for quite a little while now in terms of public appearance, public speaking. one can say look, he has a lot on his mind but for whatever reason, in the first debate, he was in the public perception beaten and beaten fairly badly by governor romney. it will be very interesting to see what he does tomorrow night. i would point out that tomorrow night is under a different format, as you know, that this public crowd participation which is a different format and a much more difficult format in order

to come back, if you will. i'm not saying barack obama can't do it, that the road is littered with the career carcasses of people who underestimated barack obama, but it's not an ideal situation. an ideal situation would be the same format as the last time, one against one, eyeball to eyeball on the stage. there will be some of that but most of it again since the format has changed will have this crowd participation. >> mitt romney's sons were on earlier, who are great credit to him in many ways but they are very clear and i think he's become very clear in his mind that this is all about the economy. that yes, you can get into an argument about abortion or gay rights or whatever the social issues which are very divisive between the parties are, but actually, what americans want is somebody who fix the economy. do you agree with that? >> not at this late stage. i do think that the economy in terms of issues is by far the number one issue but right now, i think it's all about and for the next three weeks, it will be about the debates, the economy and turnout. mitt romney will get his vote

out. whether barack obama can get his vote out or not remains an open question. >> we're hoping to get some footage of hillary clinton tonight, who has been speaking for the first time about the whole benghazi fiasco, the events leading up to the assassination of the ambassador there. what did you make of that, in particular the way the white house behaved in the aftermath? >> well, i think we have to allow for some light and shade and some perspective but it's not surprising that secretary hillary clinton would come out and take the responsibility for it the night before the debates because obviously -- >> she just taking the heat away from obama tomorrow night, you think? >> exactly. i think that's the plan, as much heat as she can, because she knows this is a vulnerability for them. we will see how president obama handles that but she takes the heat off saying listen, it's my department, i'm responsible for it. that was pretty predictable. >> is it credible, though?

all your experience, is it credible that the white house, the president, the vice president, would have no knowledge of any requests from an embassy for extra security, particularly in a hot spot like libya, where there's been so much attention from the white house in the last year? >> i can certainly see where someone else would have a different view but i think it is credible, particularly in the heat of an election campaign. i'm not saying it did or didn't happen but denying that it happened, it has credibility with me because the president, let's face it, has been concentrating, as has governor romney on three key states, florida, virginia and ohio, which those three states are going to settle the election. so i can believe that it happened but i do understand those who are skeptical and those who just don't believe it. >> ambassador rice has been criticized, her people have made it very, very clear to me that she acted on the intelligence she was given and when after four or five days after the event, they believed it was to do with protests because of the video, clearly now it was deemed to be a preorganized attack by al qaeda. that's what most people assume. do you think that she was behaving honorably? do you believe that or do you

think it suited the agenda of the administration to not have this as a reminder that al qaeda's alive and well and killing americans? >> two points. one, i think she's entitled to the benefit of any doubt. i do think she behaved honorably without some of the eyewitness or ear witness testimony or testimony to the contrary, i think yes. the second is that it's impossible to protect every embassy. i'm not making a defense. i think the obama administration has much to answer for for the way they handled this. but no administration, president bush's administration, they had occasions in which the guard was let down here, there, wasn't what it was supposed to be, but what interests me in terms of the campaign and the election is that president obama was laying down aces on foreign policy, led by the card that says we got osama bin laden, and the republicans have done a remarkably good job of punching through this vulnerability with what happened in benghazi. it will be interesting again to see tomorrow night in the debate

how effective governor romney can be in pressing that advantage. but about the debates, i promised myself i would say this. we get caught up in the debates and having said it, i think they could be decisive and maybe the first debate will be the decisive moment, but you know, i have a feeling that many people in the public, when they look at both candidates and each candidate individually, they have a feeling of sort of facing a manure spreader in a wind storm, it's all campaign posturing, all just messaging, that nobody is cracking through and saying -- >> we've got the footage down. breaking news from secretary of state hillary clinton on her trip to lima, peru. she is now talking about the benghazi attacks on september 11th. >> i take responsibility. i'm in charge of the state department, 60,000 plus people all over the world, 275 posts. the president and the vice president certainly wouldn't be knowledgeable about specific

decisions that are made by security professionals. they're the ones who weigh all of the threats and the risks and the needs and make a considered decision. >> quick reaction to that, dan? >> playing defense. >> skillfully, do you think? >> as skillfully as possible under the circumstances. but look, this is hurtful to president obama, his administration, his campaign, and with secretary of state clinton standing up, she's doing the best she can to play defense for him. but in the end, the president is responsible. >> right. and by talking tonight, of course, she does make it a perfectly valid thing for obama to rip into romney tomorrow night. great debate. fascinating stuff. appreciate it. >> good to see you. >> lots of talk in this election about small business and entrepreneurs saving the economy. is that the answer? when we come back, i will ask the perfect person. martha stewart. great business woman. martha stewart, the founder i'm only in my 60's...

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martha stewart, the founder of martha stewart america. joining me now, martha. >> thanks for having me. >> you have a multimedia celebration taken over the

vanderbilt hall. >> well, i think that it is just the right time to be encouraging small business. to be encouraging entrepreneurial initiative, to be encouraging the hand made, the homemade, which is what made america in the first place. we're encouraging, we have chosen ten honorees and we let our public choose the 11th. it was amazing. out of 2,000 possibilities, we got hundreds of thousands of votes for one winner. he happens to be a bee man who raises bees and makes his own candles. it sounds small, but could be the beginning of a fantastic business. >> something has gone wrong with the american business model. what happened?

>> what happened is that manufacturing went where labor was cheap and more plentiful and more amenable to hard work, and that's what happened, it went elsewhere. manufacturing kind of came to a screeching halt. we don't make sheets and towels here any more. north carolina, all those wonderful mills are gone. all the wonderful cotton grown here is shipped elsewhere. our phones, ipads, are made elsewhere. >> apple makes $100 billion. they could take a hit if they wanted to, and bring some of these factories home to galvanize the economy. they could do that, couldn't they? >> they could, but are they

going to get the kind of skilled labor quickly enough to make as many things as they have demand for? that's what's happened. >> is the genie out of the bottle, do you think? >> i think it can come back. i think these 28 million entrepreneurs who were running small businesses in america have the key to the future success of this country. and yet there are some very nice things happening, like toyota. they're manufacturing more cars here now than elsewhere. we just did a piece down at the toyota factory in kentucky. and this is a car that's designed and manufactured right here in the united states. so it's very fun to see the assembly line of this amazing plant and american workers. >> does whoever win on november 6th, have to make it more business friendly for companies to make that kind of decision. >> i think it would be great if that happened, absolutely. and i think that is where we must look. we must look to the small

businesses to build them into bigger businesses to make it better for all of us. >> obama's stand tomorrow night. do you think he's in a hole? >> i think it's a big debate. it's very important tomorrow night. more than 50 million of us watching. >> it will be a massive audience, massive debate. >> american made. >> they can check out our website for all the details. >> what's the website? >> marthastewart.com. >> easy. when we come back, the extraordinary moment that inspired the world. you know what i mean, that guy that just jumped out of space, as you do on a sunday afternoon. tonight's only in america. so what do you think? basic.

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tonight's only in america. to go where no man has gone before. i'm talking about this. the moment when felix baumgartner stepped on a platform hurtling into the sky at 830 miles an hour, breaking the sound barrier in a four minute free fall before opening his parachute and landing safely in the new mexico desert on sunday. >> i had tears in my eyes when i was coming back a couple times.

>> it was incredible. absurdly courageous endeavor, the whole world was watching on the internet. here's the thing, felix is austrian, and red bull who took a massive risk funding the project is also austrian. it's a time when americans have left go of big dreams. it was the extraordinary combination of the space race set in motion by president john f. kennedy. >> we choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. >> i can't be the only one who was sad to see the end of the space shuttle program recently. space travel inspires whole generations like nobody else quite literally on earth. america is a country full of dreamers, a country at its best when it dreams big and acts on